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mayoraaseiEdit (11/05/09): I've made a mistake with the name of the guy who killed Nobunaga...oops. Sorry guys LOL. It's now been fixed.
I'm going to Brisbane in a few hours so I'm sorry if I haven't been able to reply some of the messages/emails/comments. Hopefully I'll have access to the internet over there but I won't count on it.
So this is the last post before I get internet again, and it is a lesson in Japanese history! (Liar)
Yesterday Kame's new solo "1582" was leaked and I just want to make this post so that people can stop calling it "the perfect song for Twilight", thanks ="=
Right before the song was released, there were two conjectures:
1. 1582: the year in which Oda Nobunaga was killed in the famous "Honnouji Incident"
2. 1582: "15"=ichigo "82"=hani. i.e. Strawberry honey.
The only thing that had the second theory going was that Kame loves strawberries.
But the first theory was the most likely one because of a number of things:
1. Kame (and Jin) always named Oda Nobunaga as their favourite historical figure during the Sengoku (warring states) period.
2. Before the song was leaked, Kame said that it was strongly Japanese flavoured (liar).
3. The songs starts off with rapid tapping, which sounds like Japanese togs running. It also talks about arrows and blood and death, which would fit with the siege.
The lyrics more or less confirm it's not about strawberry honey, which means it's most likely in reference to the Honnouji saga.
But then it gets creepier from here on.......
Before I say anything, I'll stress that modern Japanese mentality can be a bit too romantic and the version of history you get now will most likely not be what it was 500 years ago, particularly after it's been influenced by RPGs. So therefore I can't guarantee that the sources are purely free of revisionist additions, but I can guarantee that they were written before Akame fans got to it ==;;;;
Briefly on background - Ranmaru was the only remaining son of one of Oda's trusted advisors. For a number of reasons, Oda was extremely fond of the boy. Ranmaru was highly perceptive, intelligent and capable; Oda was known to be bad-tempered and difficult to please, but Ranmaru was able to guess correctly at his master's wishes, get things organised in a way that pleases his master, and also got along extremely well with the man. It is said that Ranmaru often represented Oda in many matters and organised things for him.
The other thing - and this is where it gets a bit creepy - is that Ranmaru was said to be an extremely beautiful boy, even in his time. Apparently a foreign consul fell speechless with awe upon setting eyes on him. Whether or not Oda was fond of his physical appearance as well we can only guess at, but there is one interesting thing: in the past when boys come of age (at 12-13), they would cut their hair and assume the hairstyle of an adult. Apparently, at Oda's request, Ranmaru kept his hair uncut until his death (he was estimated to be in his late teens when he died)...whatever that request meant. Although by his late teens Oda had rewarded him with a number of high official ranks, he remained in the position of being Oda's personal valet.
Once, Oda asked of Ranmaru if he knew what his favourite thing was. Ranmaru asked if it was not the white falcon (I'm not sure if there's another meaning to this phrase, so I'll just translate it literally), to which Oda replied no, it is a live human being. Ranmaru said, "Then is it me?" Oda smiled.
Another story tells of Oda, once when drinking, told his advisers to guess the number of chrysanthemum petals on the hilt of his treasured sword. Only Ranmaru remained silent, and when Oda asked why, Ranmaru replied that once when he was waiting for Oda (who was either in the toilet or bathing...can't remember), he was so bored he counted the petals on the sword, and he thought it would be unfair if he spoke. Oda was extremely pleased with his honesty and fairness that he rewarded the sword to Ranmaru (seriously...how biased can you get! LOL)
The reasons for Akechi Mitsuhide leading the Honnouji coup are unknown and there are a huge number of theories. A few of them point to the growing favour for Ranmaru, who either once mentioned that Mitsuhide appeared to plan something, or who had once suggested that he wanted his father's holdings back - and at the time they were held by Mitsuhide.
During the coup, Oda and his few escorts were defeated against overwhelming odds. Ranmaru was the last of the few who remained a live with him before Oda retreated inside to - as the rational history would have it - commit suicide before his enemies could get to him. His last words were reportedly, "Ran, don't let them come in." Ranmaru set fire to the temple and the two of them disappeared into the fire.
I say disappeared because after the fire was put out, no one was able to locate Oda's body, which leads to many time travelling/alien abduction/divine intervention stories. Whatever the case, the inability to locate Oda intensified Mitsuhide's paranoia, delayed him from stabilising his control, and probably contributed to his eventual downfall.
Now, all that ranting about Ranmaru was to paint a picture of a young man who was well-favoured by Oda Nobunaga.
Kame's 1582 lyrics is written either from the perspective of a female escort or a male pageboy. He uses the pronoun "watakushi" through the song, which was apparently used both by women and men of lower rank at the time. It could either be referring to Oda's first wife Nouhime, who was commonly thought to not have been at Honnouji. It is therefore more likely to be from Ranmaru's perspective.
This, then, raises some rather creepy questions:
1. The relationship between Oda and Ranmaru has always been open to speculation. Japanese society is strange in that it tends to be both open and closed about homosexuality at the same time. Assuming there is a closer relationship...what is Kame doing singing from Ranmaru's perspective?
2. If it's not about sexual relationships...what are the really creepy sucking, licking, kissing, panting sounds in the background of the song?? |||||Orz The even more disturbing thing is that it's been mixed so that the pants overlap and sounds like two male voices at it together.......
3. The lyrics say "It's not about lust", but it also talks a lot about crimson lips and being healed by someone's warmth and never letting go of each other's hands and drowning in each other's blood.
4. Kame's dog is called Ran.
5. Jin had a dog called Maru. Although I'm happy to let this pass because Maru's a common pet name and it wasn't the dog that the two of them went together to buy.
6. Kame couldn't have not known about Ranmaru, since he is so fond of the Oda story, and Ranmaru sounds like a pretty popular phenomenon all by himself. Then Kame must have chosen this song either despite knowing or because he knew the Ranmaru story...which makes it even more disturbing.
7. The lyricist is credited as "n". Seriously. It screams "I'm not telling". I'm not saying it's Kame or Jin (and I actually doubt it's either of them)...then who??
There are also some similarities between the relationship of Oda and Mitsuhide, and that of Jin and Yamashita. Because I don't want to be belted by "Pin" fans, I'm not going to say any more on that. I'll stop with Oda and Mitsuhide were pretty good friends up until Mitsuhide called the coup d'etat.
Source
結論是，1582是陳述性格隨便不拘小節的仁被對冤仇耿耿於懷的大親友山P刺殺，導致小龜跟著殉情。找不到倆人尸身的山P越來越神經質，遭受衆叛親離，甚至被斗真嫌棄，最後身首異處死在山溝 （錯錯錯！！）
Edit
I just want to add a few things:
In the March issue of Potato or Duet(?), Kame said that he was still choosing his solo. One has to keep in mind that the interview probably took place at least a month earlier. Jin (and Maru?) said that they were also still looking.
I want to add this because I'm a bit sick of people saying "Care" is something Jin fell back on because a new song he wrote was rejected. The interview suggests that neither Kame nor Jin had anything concrete decided. Taguchi and Ueda both said in the same interview that they had something prepared themselves. Frankly, I'd rather Jin go back to his old way of writing, rather than writing things of incredibly poor taste.
I'm going to Brisbane in a few hours so I'm sorry if I haven't been able to reply some of the messages/emails/comments. Hopefully I'll have access to the internet over there but I won't count on it.
So this is the last post before I get internet again, and it is a lesson in Japanese history! (Liar)
Yesterday Kame's new solo "1582" was leaked and I just want to make this post so that people can stop calling it "the perfect song for Twilight", thanks ="=
Right before the song was released, there were two conjectures:
1. 1582: the year in which Oda Nobunaga was killed in the famous "Honnouji Incident"
2. 1582: "15"=ichigo "82"=hani. i.e. Strawberry honey.
The only thing that had the second theory going was that Kame loves strawberries.
But the first theory was the most likely one because of a number of things:
1. Kame (and Jin) always named Oda Nobunaga as their favourite historical figure during the Sengoku (warring states) period.
2. Before the song was leaked, Kame said that it was strongly Japanese flavoured (liar).
3. The songs starts off with rapid tapping, which sounds like Japanese togs running. It also talks about arrows and blood and death, which would fit with the siege.
The lyrics more or less confirm it's not about strawberry honey, which means it's most likely in reference to the Honnouji saga.
But then it gets creepier from here on.......
Before I say anything, I'll stress that modern Japanese mentality can be a bit too romantic and the version of history you get now will most likely not be what it was 500 years ago, particularly after it's been influenced by RPGs. So therefore I can't guarantee that the sources are purely free of revisionist additions, but I can guarantee that they were written before Akame fans got to it ==;;;;
Briefly on background - Ranmaru was the only remaining son of one of Oda's trusted advisors. For a number of reasons, Oda was extremely fond of the boy. Ranmaru was highly perceptive, intelligent and capable; Oda was known to be bad-tempered and difficult to please, but Ranmaru was able to guess correctly at his master's wishes, get things organised in a way that pleases his master, and also got along extremely well with the man. It is said that Ranmaru often represented Oda in many matters and organised things for him.
The other thing - and this is where it gets a bit creepy - is that Ranmaru was said to be an extremely beautiful boy, even in his time. Apparently a foreign consul fell speechless with awe upon setting eyes on him. Whether or not Oda was fond of his physical appearance as well we can only guess at, but there is one interesting thing: in the past when boys come of age (at 12-13), they would cut their hair and assume the hairstyle of an adult. Apparently, at Oda's request, Ranmaru kept his hair uncut until his death (he was estimated to be in his late teens when he died)...whatever that request meant. Although by his late teens Oda had rewarded him with a number of high official ranks, he remained in the position of being Oda's personal valet.
Once, Oda asked of Ranmaru if he knew what his favourite thing was. Ranmaru asked if it was not the white falcon (I'm not sure if there's another meaning to this phrase, so I'll just translate it literally), to which Oda replied no, it is a live human being. Ranmaru said, "Then is it me?" Oda smiled.
Another story tells of Oda, once when drinking, told his advisers to guess the number of chrysanthemum petals on the hilt of his treasured sword. Only Ranmaru remained silent, and when Oda asked why, Ranmaru replied that once when he was waiting for Oda (who was either in the toilet or bathing...can't remember), he was so bored he counted the petals on the sword, and he thought it would be unfair if he spoke. Oda was extremely pleased with his honesty and fairness that he rewarded the sword to Ranmaru (seriously...how biased can you get! LOL)
The reasons for Akechi Mitsuhide leading the Honnouji coup are unknown and there are a huge number of theories. A few of them point to the growing favour for Ranmaru, who either once mentioned that Mitsuhide appeared to plan something, or who had once suggested that he wanted his father's holdings back - and at the time they were held by Mitsuhide.
During the coup, Oda and his few escorts were defeated against overwhelming odds. Ranmaru was the last of the few who remained a live with him before Oda retreated inside to - as the rational history would have it - commit suicide before his enemies could get to him. His last words were reportedly, "Ran, don't let them come in." Ranmaru set fire to the temple and the two of them disappeared into the fire.
I say disappeared because after the fire was put out, no one was able to locate Oda's body, which leads to many time travelling/alien abduction/divine intervention stories. Whatever the case, the inability to locate Oda intensified Mitsuhide's paranoia, delayed him from stabilising his control, and probably contributed to his eventual downfall.
Now, all that ranting about Ranmaru was to paint a picture of a young man who was well-favoured by Oda Nobunaga.
Kame's 1582 lyrics is written either from the perspective of a female escort or a male pageboy. He uses the pronoun "watakushi" through the song, which was apparently used both by women and men of lower rank at the time. It could either be referring to Oda's first wife Nouhime, who was commonly thought to not have been at Honnouji. It is therefore more likely to be from Ranmaru's perspective.
This, then, raises some rather creepy questions:
1. The relationship between Oda and Ranmaru has always been open to speculation. Japanese society is strange in that it tends to be both open and closed about homosexuality at the same time. Assuming there is a closer relationship...what is Kame doing singing from Ranmaru's perspective?
2. If it's not about sexual relationships...what are the really creepy sucking, licking, kissing, panting sounds in the background of the song?? |||||Orz The even more disturbing thing is that it's been mixed so that the pants overlap and sounds like two male voices at it together.......
3. The lyrics say "It's not about lust", but it also talks a lot about crimson lips and being healed by someone's warmth and never letting go of each other's hands and drowning in each other's blood.
4. Kame's dog is called Ran.
5. Jin had a dog called Maru. Although I'm happy to let this pass because Maru's a common pet name and it wasn't the dog that the two of them went together to buy.
6. Kame couldn't have not known about Ranmaru, since he is so fond of the Oda story, and Ranmaru sounds like a pretty popular phenomenon all by himself. Then Kame must have chosen this song either despite knowing or because he knew the Ranmaru story...which makes it even more disturbing.
7. The lyricist is credited as "n". Seriously. It screams "I'm not telling". I'm not saying it's Kame or Jin (and I actually doubt it's either of them)...then who??
There are also some similarities between the relationship of Oda and Mitsuhide, and that of Jin and Yamashita. Because I don't want to be belted by "Pin" fans, I'm not going to say any more on that. I'll stop with Oda and Mitsuhide were pretty good friends up until Mitsuhide called the coup d'etat.
Source
結論是，1582是陳述性格隨便不拘小節的仁被對冤仇耿耿於懷的大親友山P刺殺，導致小龜跟著殉情。找不到倆人尸身的山P越來越神經質，遭受衆叛親離，甚至被斗真嫌棄，最後身首異處死在山溝 （錯錯錯！！）
Edit
I just want to add a few things:
In the March issue of Potato or Duet(?), Kame said that he was still choosing his solo. One has to keep in mind that the interview probably took place at least a month earlier. Jin (and Maru?) said that they were also still looking.
I want to add this because I'm a bit sick of people saying "Care" is something Jin fell back on because a new song he wrote was rejected. The interview suggests that neither Kame nor Jin had anything concrete decided. Taguchi and Ueda both said in the same interview that they had something prepared themselves. Frankly, I'd rather Jin go back to his old way of writing, rather than writing things of incredibly poor taste.
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 08:15 am (UTC)And now I shall go look for this 1582 song 8DDDDD
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 08:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 06:15 pm (UTC)Can't wait for Jin's Care though~!
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 04:58 pm (UTC)uwaaa, such a deep meaning...
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 06:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 03:01 pm (UTC)you must've done a lot of research into it all, and it all makes a lot sense. Thank you for your hard work.
I'm not a big fan of twilight (almost anti), so thank you for making thsi post ^-^
Listening to the song, I'm stll wondering about the 'sound effects' at the beginning and during the song.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 06:17 pm (UTC)it's kinda embarrassing to listen to that song in the middle of the night wondering about the sound effects. LOL
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 04:25 pm (UTC)i want to know about Oda - Toyotomi/ Jin-Pi.. what about it them??
Tell us Plz, Onegaishimasu
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 06:21 pm (UTC)if u like p, it's best to keep liking him the way you know him now, isn't it?
no subject
Date: 2009-04-10 04:54 am (UTC)But..but i want to know more about Oda-Ranmaru-Toyotomi ^^,
so Ranmaru & Toyotomi also had a close relationship??
Is Ranmaru one of the reasons/theories of Honnouji coup incident? or is it just a battle of power?
Sounds like a "Troy movie" to me XD
sorry for burdening u with all this sort of questions
TQ
no subject
Date: 2009-04-11 11:41 am (UTC)The theory proposed by where I got my overview from said that Toyotomi is a careful person who likes to play things by the rules. Nobunaga by contrast is more casual, or "undisciplined" and likes to do things according to his own whim. Toyotomi can get uptight about things, whereas Nobunaga gets impatient when people lecture him. Toyotomi seems to be someone who is emotionally vulnerable. Nobunaga is the type who's violent when drunk, but after arguments, he gets over them quickly and shrugs it off. Toyotomi is the type who keeps grudges, and probably it got to a breaking point for Toyotomi.
It seems that the coup was something he considered for a long time, and he went to temples to pray, etc etc, and mentioned it to four of his friends. One of them said, "If you had spoken only to me, I would, to the very limit of my life, persuade you against it. But now that you have spoken to three others, the matter can no longer be kept a secret, it is too far gone and must then go ahead."
I'd argue against Kame and Yamashita having a close relationship lol. I'd stop at "a friendly professional relationship".
no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 01:07 am (UTC)its fun reading this then own country history LOL
I think i want to dig in some more about this story, its interesting to read ^^,
anyway from what i goggle there is a novel called "Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa", its a fictional novel based on Oda Nobunaga story.. I still cant find English translation for that story..(-__-) Do u know about it?
Anyway, tx a lot
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 04:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 03:07 pm (UTC)More detail!!
I love this!!
THanks!!~
;)
no subject
Date: 2009-04-18 04:59 pm (UTC)*speechless*
Such a long and details interpret also searching for information.
1582 if wont have any reply from Kame or someone, will be the most mysterious and scandalous in history of Kame ^.^v
no subject
Date: 2009-05-10 05:14 pm (UTC)Hey, the guy who betrayed Nobunaga at Honnouji was Akechi Mitsuhide, not Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
Hideyoshi is actually the guy who killed Mitsuhide, avenging Nobunaga's death (and becoming his political sucessor).
no subject
Date: 2009-05-10 05:26 pm (UTC)Thanks for the tip. Have now corrected everything =)
no subject
Date: 2009-05-11 01:34 pm (UTC)1582 - Ichigo Pantsu?
Date: 2009-08-19 04:20 pm (UTC)Everyone keeps seeming to say that 1582 means Ichigo Pantsu? I get the "Ichigo" part, but "Pantsu"?
I didn't know you could pronounce 8 as Pan, or 2 as Tsu?
Please help!
By the way, I LOVED your post ^^
xxvandalizexx :3
Re: 1582 - Ichigo Pantsu?
Date: 2009-08-22 07:09 am (UTC)For "2" it used the English pronunciation, which when romanised in Japanese is "tsuu" (because they don't have "tu"). They do use the English "two" quite a bit in other imported phrases so it's not that odd I guess.
Re: 1582 - Ichigo Pantsu?
Date: 2009-08-22 10:25 am (UTC)I do actually feel like quite an idiot now for not realising the 2/tsuu part. I completely forgot about that!
Thank you for your explanation! ^^
xxvandalizexx
P.S i'll name my dog ranmaru!!
Date: 2009-11-29 10:18 am (UTC)love this story !!
it's true right-it's japan history ne??
.......
LOVE AKAME bond!!
no subject
Date: 2009-11-30 02:48 am (UTC)thanks for this
no subject
Date: 2009-12-05 11:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 05:54 am (UTC)OTL THIS SENTENCE IS SO MADE OF WINZ. ♥
Damn good fic material. XD
no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 06:21 am (UTC)YES I was totally hoping someone would get the hint and write that fic XDDDDDDDDDD
From your profile I see you're into a lot of XXXX/Kame pairings XDD I didn't even know 亮龜 existed O_o;
no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 06:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 10:42 am (UTC)讀中文耽美同人文被洗腦 囧
Haha, even Toma/Kame exists! XD
Yep! I also read CLAMP-sama's. Their stories just bring you to a whole new world, take you on an amazing journey, then leave you with nothing but desire and make you wilingly stay there forever. They also eat you, but you don't know that. DD:
no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 11:34 am (UTC)CLAMP reels you in with promises of epic battles and then they screw your mind 360 degrees and you think you still love them but your worldview has completely warped |||||||Orz
no subject
Date: 2010-01-05 04:32 pm (UTC)I know. I'm already warped as it is (have one-sided conversation on Chobits and TRC with my friends) and is still deluded that one day they will finish X/1999
and GIVE ME MOOR KUROTOMO AND LESS KUROFAI. =Xno subject
Date: 2010-01-13 06:07 pm (UTC)I am actually from a very little land called Lituania(in Europe) and Ive been interested on Japan for quite some time now(pshh~ 3 years) in addition am big fan of j-music (specially KAT-TUN) so this song intrigued me a bit. Somehow I dont find this song creepy at all ^^
Perfect song and the lyrics...(PS. Sooo~ would love to know who wrote them originally and the confirmation of story behind song, but..eh..)
no subject
Date: 2011-05-23 04:55 pm (UTC)amazing
Date: 2011-08-03 07:19 am (UTC)well it is amazing. I spend a whole day looking for the lyric in English, in Japanese, meaning behind the title 1582 and i end up here. Thanks for the review... well it is "wow" that's all i can say.Thanks for giving a light about it.
no subject
Date: 2012-01-27 12:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-08-02 03:34 pm (UTC)But, as you probably know, Kame revealed himself to be 'n'.
Well, well, Kame xD